Steve, I think you've probably nailed down the decision process. Also a lot of the flaws with other kayaks. I too noticed the problem with the Compass early on and it steered me far away. To me it is nothing more than a cheap Wal-Mart-type version of a real Hobie. (Sorry Hobie fans!) The last thing I want to do is spend my RARE and sweat earned money on a kayak I have to fix 2 days after I get it. Part of my decision making process is now to wait at least a year before ever CONSIDERING a new kayak, so all the fails and shortcomings (the Pilot for instance) will come to light. For me the FD would fall into this "wait a year" category).
I think it all comes down to a few things really. 1) Cost. That makes or breaks most peoples decisions. 2) Comfort. Like you mentioned things like the seat. But also is it comfortable on the water a full day? That last thing I personally would need is to come home hurting all night. 3) Features. Does it have everything I'm going to need for my style, or am I going to have to spend another small fortune adding stuff? 4) Is it easy to upgrade or add stuff to? If it has no where to mount/add anything, than its automatically future proof. Tech changes constantly. Especially today's fishing tech. 5) Does the total cost justify buying it? Kayak prices are so ridiculous today that I really have to weight every single option, just like you did, to figure it its really worth it for a poor guy. and perhaps more importantly 6) how does it paddle? What if something happens and the peddle drive breaks down in the middle of the lake, on the ocean, etc.? Can you paddle several miles to land? Or is it like paddling a barge?
Those would be my main concerns.
But I think you will nail all of that on the demo. Demos are essential because they can tell you more in 15 minutes that a weeks worth of Q&A visits in a shop some where!
I’m not as analytical as you, but it interesting that we ended up with the same two boats. Most of my six months of research has been word of mouth and watching videos. I don’t so much listen to what people say on videos, but watch what they do and how things work. And I talk to good kayak fishermen. Rather than demoing, I have booked a half day fishing trip with two guides, one will put me in an Outback and the other in a Coosa fd. As you know, paddling (peddling) around a demo lake for 30 minutes is just not enough. Four hours will show you where that spot is that aches or rubs after two hours. I have fished all my life, but not from a kayak. The guide days are also to learn tips and tricks before I start outfitting my own boat. One criteria I missed on your chart is personally giving me pause. Both these boats have a reverse, but the Coosa’s is hands free, no lever to pull, just reverse peddle. No need to take one hand off the reel handle. I don’t know how important this is yet but it is something I want to feel for myself. Really enjoyed you video and you thoughts. Isn’t it great to have something you are so passionate about that even the research is a BLAST! Good luck with your pick.
Just wondering how you scored "Easy to Handle Out of the Water?" This may not be an issue if you have a lot of accessible ramps/launches, but if you don't or like to try new places, I can see this being a big issue.
I am a lean six sigma black belt consultant for manufacturing for 25 years and this is best statistical data driven approach I've ever seen for selecting not just a kayak but any fishing equipment . You have done a fantastic job and I'm going to use your template for picking my next kayak. In trying to find one that will meet my needs for river and inshore fishing. Can't wait to see your next steps in this process
Steve, I had a chance this week to demo the Coosa FD and Radar 135 this week (it was still on my list). The drive on the Radar just didnt cut it for me even with the quick "up periscope" button. It did however paddle very nicely. I was disappointed in the Coosa drive I demoed. Unfortunetly for me it was an earlier version that Jackson has updated. The gentleman that allowed me to demo said he felt that the internal drive system (he thought was chain) in that particular unit was not as tight as others that they had received after it. Looking forward to your thoughts on it. Make sure you carry it with someone (one on the bow and one on the stern) it's noticely heavier than I would have expected but did paddle decent; not nearly as well as the Radar though. I noticed on your spread sheet you added 4 gear tracks for the Outback. Is this just the track that will sit up about 3/8 of an inch off the yak? If so does it concern you at all about snagging things? If not this type, what are you thinking? I havent demoed the Outback yet but when I do I am going to seriously consider the H rails as an option to tracks (unless I find where I can recess them or find some type of low profile track). Good stuff…look forward to your next step!
I thought I would add an item that has not been mentioned. It has made a great deal of difference as a Hobie PA14 and Outback owners. My wife uses the outback mostly. We added the Hobie sail and Amas as she has had a knee replacement. I can say now after two years with the sail option, it is the fastest , easier mode of getting from one end of a reservoir to the other. It does not make any difference as to the depth of water. It is very easier to install and the furling option makes it a snap to close up the sail and be ready to cast. Hope you can find a demo with that option to try. It takes about 15 minutes to learn.
I have a Hoble pro angler and an adventure. I fish a lot in shallow estuaries. I really like that you switch to super shallow mode just by pushing one leg forward and still fish with both hands at the same time. Not much chance of your line getting caught if the fish goes under the boat either while still fishing with both hands. I also like that you can pull out the entire drive and hose it off and spray lube with wd40 very easily. The drive is also so simple it is easy to repair if there is a problem. I dont like the scupper wheel system. Too hard to get on. I use strap on large balloon Wheel Eezz dont need to unload or tip kayak.
I think you did well in your attempt to narrow down which kayak is best for you..For all of us it's a personal decision. As for me placing a trolling motor on my O.C. Prowler BG2 was the best thing I could have ever done. I previously spent too much money on Hobie PA 12 in that like you I spend most of my time in really shallow waters and the pedal drive just sat on the deck taking up essential space. As a 52 yr old, I look for comfort, good seat height and most of all excellent width. I could care less now about stealth, speed and manuerverability. And still, I catch the same amount of fish and I'm not dead after heading out a long ways from the dock.
Thanks now you got me wanting a new kayak my wife is going to kill me when she finds out how much I spend. Get video and beak down on the kayaks I'm leaning towards the hobie.
Great Video. I just went through this. My criteria were cost, weight, stability, seat… then secondary, foot pegs & rod holders. The Vibe Yellowfin met all of them and I now have the perfect kayak for me.
Great info, but,… There are a few REALLY great kayaks that have been left out. One particular is the Vibe brand. Have you looked at them? The price comparison alone should turn some heads. lol
Great video! Try out the Hobie in 2 to 3 inches of water. I would get tired of taking the Mirage drive out. I take mine out. The older masts are easy to bend back, but the splint ring is a pain to put back on the pin on the water. The 180 looks easier to repair. I'm not sure.
I think your doing yourself a great injustice by not demoing all of them a good dealer would have no problem letting do this and to know what really fits you and you feel comfortable in you really need to do this for yourself
I have been looking for a new kayak for about five months. At first, I wanted an Outback. I did not like the fact there are no tracks and that it was still relatively heavy. For me, weight of the kayak is a huge issue. I eliminated many other kayak options just on the weight factor. Some seem really great until you look at what they weigh. Of course, it depends on how you want to use your kayak. However, after dragging my Emotion Stealth Pro Angler up/down a few beaches, even with wide beach tires on a cart, I am ready for as light as possible in kayak and gear. I have decided to go with the Hobie Compass for that reason. The Compass initially did not appeal to me until I saw the weight. Beyond the weight it is very stable and has the Hobie drive system. It is unfortunate that Hobie decided to use the Compass offering to get rid of the rest of their non-reversing drives. But, in a lightweight kayak I can live without reverse. Next year perhaps the Compass will come with reversing drive, but I do not wish to wait that long.
I purchased an ascend fs 10 liked it for a beginner kayak so far but thinking about an emotion stealth pro angler for my next one i like the seat on them
Steve, GREAT video! Nice to see someone else who uses a spreadsheet to weigh options. For you, think you've picked the right two kayaks to demo. I have tried both of those and as we have discussed the outback was just not a fit for me because of my size. It maybe more stable for you when you demo it but I think you're going to be blown away at how stable even with a gear-load-out at how stable and comfortable the Coosa FD is. I'd recommend, taking 25-40 lbs. of weight with you to try both. I know you said your 5'9" ~200, but add an anchor, your rods, bait bucket, paddle, fishfinder, battery, cooler, kayak crate, tackle and you start adding the weight on pretty quickly. Good Luck!
I just went through your list and the PP PIlot needs some more updating/changing of boxes from red to green. 🙂 1. I will weight my drive seat tomorrow but it is around 10lbs or less 2. The boat weighs less than all of the others but is written in yellow/medium 3. I fit a Igloo Island Breeze cooler in the back with room to rod holders screwed to the side so it is big enough but that is opinion I suppose 4. The seat may not adjust in height however, the actual floor sits lower than most so it feels like you are high without having to sit high. 5. The front net area is great for stowing either my paddle, net, or short stake out pole and the drive locks them in there when folded if needed for beach landings. 6. There IS 1 cup holder 7. There IS a fish finder transducer cavity! It is already pre-anchor nutted into the hole for mounting one. Also, the front two storage latches have pre-made wire routes so you don't have to drill into the yak/aka you can take it all out very fast. 8. I am a bit bias sounding I know but I don't know much about the other yaks or I would help out with them as well. lol C-mon… PPP!
What a great decision making process. I don't see how you would be disappointed with either one of these options. Hobie and Jackson are both great kayaks. I own a Jackson Big Tuna, which has been phenomenal…, but I would love to have the Coosa FD.
I just picked up a emotion stealth pro angler. I got it for the seat and the fact I can stand up in it. And of course the price. It was on sale! Thanks for the video! I see you’re a former artilleryman. I did 8 years as a fire control man in the Marines.
I started watching with the expectation of a decision at the end. What a cliff hanger. In nearly all of your decision points it becomes obvious when through process of illumination you are near the end. The hard part is just ahead. Not to prolong the process, but have you considered a factory tour? Jackson isnt all that far from you? They have some good videos put, and you may get some new perspective by seeing it built.
One thing I saw on another video that I think is worth considering is that with the mirage drive there is a lever to flip to reverse the drive. so you have to reach down, flip, paddle, reach down, flip, back to forward. With the pedal drive, it's hands free, just reverse the motion. It's something I never considered when considering a pedal drive kayak, but I do think it's worth thinking about going forward.
Whichever brand you choose, the fella that owns the shop you've featured should provide you some type of nice discount. If not on the rig itself, but possibly on accessories just for the free exposure/advertising you've given him. It's just good business to do so (imo). 🙂
Steve, great video thread, so many kayakers are looking to upgrade as this phenomenon of kayak fishing continues to evolve! I personally have only been in it a season and already have owned 3 different brands!
Now to the chart, one of the key points in this process is definitely the "What you fish for and the Where you fish". The other very important part for me is the comfort and storage. Fishing for 8 plus hours can have its toll on the body, twisting, bending, turning, I need to be able to stand up and stretch at a minimum! Looking at where your final choices are and being an owner of an 2017 Outback for all of 3 fishing trips, (more on that at bottom) you are looking at the Jackson! The shallow water drafting is a good feature of the Hobie, but knowing what position the fins are in and when to drop them back down is not all that easy, plus if you do drop them they can get bent up or caught. Also I found it to be a pain because if you have a fish on when "fluttering" through the shallows you now have to keep feet on pedals and fish!
Standing in an Outback is just that, you don't want to move around , if at all. I found that even with the square hatch as soon as I would stand, my feet were sliding down, it's is far from level! That is why I was considering the Compass (you might want to revisit) over the Outback, plus the Compass will be a dryer ride. I am 5'8" and found the OB to be very cramped especially the foot well area.
The Spreadsheet is very helpful and anyone who will use it just needs to plug in there 3 key components for process of elimination. I am personally trying to hold off to compare the Predator PDL against the Jackson Coosa FD. One bit of talk I heard about the Jackson was they are trying to figure out an issue when pedaling in reverse?? Something about the drive wanting to retract back up?
NOTE – For all the viewers that will read this, it is not a Hobie bash, I just found that Hobie is NOT for everyone. If the Compass had just a bit more storage in hull and additional movement of seat I think it would be a Hookset!
Steve, I think you've probably nailed down the decision process. Also a lot of the flaws with other kayaks. I too noticed the problem with the Compass early on and it steered me far away. To me it is nothing more than a cheap Wal-Mart-type version of a real Hobie. (Sorry Hobie fans!) The last thing I want to do is spend my RARE and sweat earned money on a kayak I have to fix 2 days after I get it. Part of my decision making process is now to wait at least a year before ever CONSIDERING a new kayak, so all the fails and shortcomings (the Pilot for instance) will come to light. For me the FD would fall into this "wait a year" category).
I think it all comes down to a few things really. 1) Cost. That makes or breaks most peoples decisions. 2) Comfort. Like you mentioned things like the seat. But also is it comfortable on the water a full day? That last thing I personally would need is to come home hurting all night. 3) Features. Does it have everything I'm going to need for my style, or am I going to have to spend another small fortune adding stuff? 4) Is it easy to upgrade or add stuff to? If it has no where to mount/add anything, than its automatically future proof. Tech changes constantly. Especially today's fishing tech. 5) Does the total cost justify buying it? Kayak prices are so ridiculous today that I really have to weight every single option, just like you did, to figure it its really worth it for a poor guy. and perhaps more importantly 6) how does it paddle? What if something happens and the peddle drive breaks down in the middle of the lake, on the ocean, etc.? Can you paddle several miles to land? Or is it like paddling a barge?
Those would be my main concerns.
But I think you will nail all of that on the demo. Demos are essential because they can tell you more in 15 minutes that a weeks worth of Q&A visits in a shop some where!
I’m not as analytical as you, but it interesting that we ended up with the same two boats. Most of my six months of research has been word of mouth and watching videos. I don’t so much listen to what people say on videos, but watch what they do and how things work. And I talk to good kayak fishermen. Rather than demoing, I have booked a half day fishing trip with two guides, one will put me in an Outback and the other in a Coosa fd. As you know, paddling (peddling) around a demo lake for 30 minutes is just not enough. Four hours will show you where that spot is that aches or rubs after two hours. I have fished all my life, but not from a kayak. The guide days are also to learn tips and tricks before I start outfitting my own boat. One criteria I missed on your chart is personally giving me pause. Both these boats have a reverse, but the Coosa’s is hands free, no lever to pull, just reverse peddle. No need to take one hand off the reel handle. I don’t know how important this is yet but it is something I want to feel for myself. Really enjoyed you video and you thoughts. Isn’t it great to have something you are so passionate about that even the research is a BLAST! Good luck with your pick.
Just wondering how you scored "Easy to Handle Out of the Water?" This may not be an issue if you have a lot of accessible ramps/launches, but if you don't or like to try new places, I can see this being a big issue.
Hi Steve, did you make a decision yet on the new Kayak?
I guess my choice is a lot easier since I'm not looking for a pedal drive. There are relatively cheap options with lots of features.
I am a lean six sigma black belt consultant for manufacturing for 25 years and this is best statistical data driven approach I've ever seen for selecting not just a kayak but any fishing equipment . You have done a fantastic job and I'm going to use your template for picking my next kayak. In trying to find one that will meet my needs for river and inshore fishing. Can't wait to see your next steps in this process
Steve, I had a chance this week to demo the Coosa FD and Radar 135 this week (it was still on my list). The drive on the Radar just didnt cut it for me even with the quick "up periscope" button. It did however paddle very nicely. I was disappointed in the Coosa drive I demoed. Unfortunetly for me it was an earlier version that Jackson has updated. The gentleman that allowed me to demo said he felt that the internal drive system (he thought was chain) in that particular unit was not as tight as others that they had received after it. Looking forward to your thoughts on it. Make sure you carry it with someone (one on the bow and one on the stern) it's noticely heavier than I would have expected but did paddle decent; not nearly as well as the Radar though. I noticed on your spread sheet you added 4 gear tracks for the Outback. Is this just the track that will sit up about 3/8 of an inch off the yak? If so does it concern you at all about snagging things? If not this type, what are you thinking? I havent demoed the Outback yet but when I do I am going to seriously consider the H rails as an option to tracks (unless I find where I can recess them or find some type of low profile track). Good stuff…look forward to your next step!
I thought I would add an item that has not been mentioned. It has made a great deal of difference as a Hobie PA14 and Outback owners. My wife uses the outback mostly. We added the Hobie sail and Amas as she has had a knee replacement. I can say now after two years with the sail option, it is the fastest , easier mode of getting from one end of a reservoir to the other. It does not make any difference as to the depth of water. It is very easier to install and the furling option makes it a snap to close up the sail and be ready to cast. Hope you can find a demo with that option to try. It takes about 15 minutes to learn.
I get to demo the 2018 hobies this Sunday and am super excited. I am between the outback Jackson fd and the predator pdl. This summer will be amazing.
I have a Hoble pro angler and an adventure. I fish a lot in shallow estuaries. I really like that you switch to super shallow mode just by pushing one leg forward and still fish with both hands at the same time. Not much chance of your line getting caught if the fish goes under the boat either while still fishing with both hands. I also like that you can pull out the entire drive and hose it off and spray lube with wd40 very easily. The drive is also so simple it is easy to repair if there is a problem. I dont like the scupper wheel system. Too hard to get on. I use strap on large balloon Wheel Eezz dont need to unload or tip kayak.
Stay native…..
I think you did well in your attempt to narrow down which kayak is best for you..For all of us it's a personal decision. As for me placing a trolling motor on my O.C. Prowler BG2 was the best thing I could have ever done. I previously spent too much money on Hobie PA 12 in that like you I spend most of my time in really shallow waters and the pedal drive just sat on the deck taking up essential space. As a 52 yr old, I look for comfort, good seat height and most of all excellent width. I could care less now about stealth, speed and manuerverability. And still, I catch the same amount of fish and I'm not dead after heading out a long ways from the dock.
Thanks now you got me wanting a new kayak my wife is going to kill me when she finds out how much I spend. Get video and beak down on the kayaks I'm leaning towards the hobie.
Great Video. I just went through this. My criteria were cost, weight, stability, seat… then secondary, foot pegs & rod holders. The Vibe Yellowfin met all of them and I now have the perfect kayak for me.
After watching this thread you have me wanting to buy the jk coosa fd
Kinda late have you looked at any of the bonafide kayaks
Great info, but,… There are a few REALLY great kayaks that have been left out. One particular is the Vibe brand. Have you looked at them? The price comparison alone should turn some heads. lol
Consider the Weight .. Also the noise of the drives / creaking seats in the water impacts noticeably on fishing results in my opinion .
i decided to pick native manta ray propel, what do u think that one?
Great video! Try out the Hobie in 2 to 3 inches of water. I would get tired of taking the Mirage drive out. I take mine out. The older masts are easy to bend back, but the splint ring is a pain to put back on the pin on the water. The 180 looks easier to repair. I'm not sure.
wow, what great detail in this decision. I am excited to see the on the water demos.
I think you picked the right final two. I look forward to your test drive video!
I think your doing yourself a great injustice by not demoing all of them a good dealer would have no problem letting do this and to know what really fits you and you feel comfortable in you really need to do this for yourself
I have been looking for a new kayak for about five months. At first, I wanted an Outback. I did not like the fact there are no tracks and that it was still relatively heavy. For me, weight of the kayak is a huge issue. I eliminated many other kayak options just on the weight factor. Some seem really great until you look at what they weigh. Of course, it depends on how you want to use your kayak. However, after dragging my Emotion Stealth Pro Angler up/down a few beaches, even with wide beach tires on a cart, I am ready for as light as possible in kayak and gear. I have decided to go with the Hobie Compass for that reason. The Compass initially did not appeal to me until I saw the weight. Beyond the weight it is very stable and has the Hobie drive system. It is unfortunate that Hobie decided to use the Compass offering to get rid of the rest of their non-reversing drives. But, in a lightweight kayak I can live without reverse. Next year perhaps the Compass will come with reversing drive, but I do not wish to wait that long.
I purchased an ascend fs 10 liked it for a beginner kayak so far but thinking about an emotion stealth pro angler for my next one i like the seat on them
Both are great boats. You can't go wrong either way. I love my Outback, but the fd looks like an awesome boat.
Steve, GREAT video! Nice to see someone else who uses a spreadsheet to weigh options. For you, think you've picked the right two kayaks to demo. I have tried both of those and as we have discussed the outback was just not a fit for me because of my size. It maybe more stable for you when you demo it but I think you're going to be blown away at how stable even with a gear-load-out at how stable and comfortable the Coosa FD is. I'd recommend, taking 25-40 lbs. of weight with you to try both. I know you said your 5'9" ~200, but add an anchor, your rods, bait bucket, paddle, fishfinder, battery, cooler, kayak crate, tackle and you start adding the weight on pretty quickly. Good Luck!
I just went through your list and the PP PIlot needs some more updating/changing of boxes from red to green. 🙂 1. I will weight my drive seat tomorrow but it is around 10lbs or less 2. The boat weighs less than all of the others but is written in yellow/medium 3. I fit a Igloo Island Breeze cooler in the back with room to rod holders screwed to the side so it is big enough but that is opinion I suppose 4. The seat may not adjust in height however, the actual floor sits lower than most so it feels like you are high without having to sit high. 5. The front net area is great for stowing either my paddle, net, or short stake out pole and the drive locks them in there when folded if needed for beach landings. 6. There IS 1 cup holder 7. There IS a fish finder transducer cavity! It is already pre-anchor nutted into the hole for mounting one. Also, the front two storage latches have pre-made wire routes so you don't have to drill into the yak/aka you can take it all out very fast. 8. I am a bit bias sounding I know but I don't know much about the other yaks or I would help out with them as well. lol C-mon… PPP!
Predator 13 , first kayak, good price and plenty of storage, comfortable and stable, i enjoy mine
What a great decision making process. I don't see how you would be disappointed with either one of these options. Hobie and Jackson are both great kayaks. I own a Jackson Big Tuna, which has been phenomenal…, but I would love to have the Coosa FD.
I just picked up a emotion stealth pro angler. I got it for the seat and the fact I can stand up in it. And of course the price. It was on sale! Thanks for the video! I see you’re a former artilleryman. I did 8 years as a fire control man in the Marines.
I need to download your spreadsheet for my own decision process……is Vegas in on this $$$$$
I started watching with the expectation of a decision at the end. What a cliff hanger. In nearly all of your decision points it becomes obvious when through process of illumination you are near the end. The hard part is just ahead. Not to prolong the process, but have you considered a factory tour? Jackson isnt all that far from you? They have some good videos put, and you may get some new perspective by seeing it built.
One thing I saw on another video that I think is worth considering is that with the mirage drive there is a lever to flip to reverse the drive. so you have to reach down, flip, paddle, reach down, flip, back to forward. With the pedal drive, it's hands free, just reverse the motion. It's something I never considered when considering a pedal drive kayak, but I do think it's worth thinking about going forward.
Coosa coosa coosa coosa lol
Have you seen the new Blue sky Boatworks angler 360 from Jackson? Awesome boat.
Whichever brand you choose, the fella that owns the shop you've featured should provide you some type of nice discount. If not on the rig itself, but possibly on accessories just for the free exposure/advertising you've given him. It's just good business to do so (imo). 🙂
Good video and I like your caution in purchasing the right one. Good luck with your choice. I know you will make the right one for your needs
Steve, great video thread, so many kayakers are looking to upgrade as this phenomenon of kayak fishing continues to evolve! I personally have only been in it a season and already have owned 3 different brands!
Now to the chart, one of the key points in this process is definitely the "What you fish for and the Where you fish". The other very important part for me is the comfort and storage.
Fishing for 8 plus hours can have its toll on the body, twisting, bending, turning, I need to be able to stand up and stretch at a minimum! Looking at where your final choices are and being an owner of an 2017 Outback for all of 3 fishing trips, (more on that at bottom) you are looking at the Jackson!
The shallow water drafting is a good feature of the Hobie, but knowing what position the fins are in and when to drop them back down is not all that easy, plus if you do drop them they can get bent up or caught. Also I found it to be a pain because if you have a fish on when "fluttering" through the shallows you now have to keep feet on pedals and fish!
Standing in an Outback is just that, you don't want to move around , if at all. I found that even with the square hatch as soon as I would stand, my feet were sliding down, it's is far from level! That is why I was considering the Compass (you might want to revisit) over the Outback, plus the Compass will be a dryer ride. I am 5'8" and found the OB to be very cramped especially the foot well area.
The Spreadsheet is very helpful and anyone who will use it just needs to plug in there 3 key components for process of elimination. I am personally trying to hold off to compare the Predator PDL against the Jackson Coosa FD. One bit of talk I heard about the Jackson was they are trying to figure out an issue when pedaling in reverse?? Something about the drive wanting to retract back up?
NOTE – For all the viewers that will read this, it is not a Hobie bash, I just found that Hobie is NOT for everyone. If the Compass had just a bit more storage in hull and additional movement of seat I think it would be a Hookset!
Im going through the same process. Lol. Its so hard to choose!